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Dec 14, 2011 20:07:46 GMT
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hello, a week of work and a cold day means ive been scanning the wonderfull world of online bidding stores, and came accross an old f reg defender.
the item in queston is a 2.5 manual td 2door, insurance came back pleasantly cheap.
how do these things perform with modern traffic? i don't do many motorway miles, but it would need to tow a trailer every other weekend, i know reputation is that they're quite basic, but are they liveable with?
viewpoints please!
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Dec 14, 2011 20:29:49 GMT
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Yeah, they're not a major problem as a daily. Depends on what you expect...
Around 25mpg
Really very loud inside.
Not the easiest things to drive (more like a small tractor than a big car).
Things go wrong, my parents chopped a 20 year old 90 for a 3 year old 110 and reckoned to be paying similar amounts on finance for the new one as they did in repairs for the old one.
On the upside though, they're quick enough and will be happy to sit at 60mph. A td (F reg is pre 200tdi I think?) will probably do 70 ok, but it will be LOUD!
Time like this it might be advisable to cover half the radiator, else it might never get up to temperature.
-One more point, consider security. They aren't all that hard to nick and are very quick and easy to strip.
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Last Edit: Dec 14, 2011 20:31:39 GMT by SamR380
I've got Rovers.
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Dec 14, 2011 20:38:10 GMT
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25mpg is 10 more than i get outa my mk2 granada, and 5 less than my capri so thats ok, i had a d reg transit for over a year, so it cant be much heavier/clunky to drive.
not sure if i like the "things go wrong" part tho, any ideas of things to look out for? I'm more than a dab hand at changing/fixing things mechanicaly so that shouldnt be an issue, i don't expect there to be much electric trickery anywhere?
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Brian Damaged
West Midlands
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 9,553 
Club RR Member Number: 33
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Dec 14, 2011 20:40:37 GMT
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Yeah, they're not a major problem as a daily. Depends on what you expect... Around 25mpg Really very loud inside. Not the easiest things to drive (more like a small tractor than a big car). Things go wrong, my parents chopped a 20 year old 90 for a 3 year old 110 and reckoned to be paying similar amounts on finance for the new one as they did in repairs for the old one. On the upside though, they're quick enough and will be happy to sit at 60mph. A td (F reg is pre 200tdi I think?) will probably do 70 ok, but it will be LOUD! Time like this it might be advisable to cover half the radiator, else it might never get up to temperature. -One more point, consider security. They aren't all that hard to nick and are very quick and easy to strip. All the above.....but make sure you check that engine thoroughly. The 85bhp OHV '19J' 2495cc TD lump fitted from 1986-1990 was an absolute dog. Stories of cracked pistons, cracked blocks and dumping pints of engine oil into the air filter housing (due to a badly-designed breather system) causing the engines to run away and self-destruct are commonplace. Most Defenders (or to give them their proper title 'Land Rover Ninety'...the Defender name wasn't used until 1991) of that age have been re-engined with 200TDi lumps, only the air intake hose and exhaust need to be changed. |
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PHUQ
Part of things
Posts: 859
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Dec 14, 2011 20:42:14 GMT
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I ran a 1962 SWB diesel as a daily from about January 'till August (when I moved house and started using my legs instead) and it was perfectly liveablewith, once I'd fitted a heater. That was about 15 miles each way, lanes and then the A38. I found it quite nice in traffic, ignore the throttle and brakes and just use the clutch as on on/ off switch to crawl along. Bit slow on the motorway though- worst bit is accelerating down the slip round onto a busy motorway. 56mph is your friend, with any Land Rover.
Is that the original 2.5 TURBO (as the badging proudly stated) which has a reputation for being a bit unreliable, or the 200tdi which is an awesome engine? Would have originally been the former, but many have gained the latter...
Sam makes a good point r.e. security, Defenders (which an F reg isn't, technically it's either a Ninety or a 90, depending on what mood they were in that week) get nicked depressingly reguarly.
Things to check? Rot. 90/110 chassis are a lot more complex than series Landies, with more rot spots. Doors rot more, both the steel frames and the outer skin from electrolytic reaction. Bulkheads rot too of course.
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Last Edit: Dec 14, 2011 20:55:05 GMT by PHUQ
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Dec 14, 2011 20:54:36 GMT
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Get a 200tdi Disco instead, they're are properly useable, go better, more economical and usually cheaper to buy.
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Koos
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Violet Vivid
Part of things
Reports of my demise were somewhat exaggerated
Posts: 734
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Dec 14, 2011 21:12:02 GMT
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as Squire Damaged says very correctly an F-Reg will be the 19J TD engine.
Touted as the 2nd worse engine ever to be fitted to a solihul product lol (1st being a 2.4VM diesel in the Range Rover)
That Said I did 40k miles in mine before the rings wore on the pistons, vapourising oil past them into the turbo killed it.
Now they gave me PLENTY of warning of this, but as i had a 200TDI to replace it i wasn't bothered 
they are very live with-able as a daily, if its got PAS then watch for leaks, check for rot on the bulkhead & chassis
Also like I mentioned a 200TDI from a rotten discovery is a great upgrade, and fairly easy to do
xXx
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Violet, purple-loving Landy obsessed Purple-haired CyberPunk Almost model & occasional word wrangler regarding Landies
xXxIf she can't decide on what kind of genitalia she likes to play with you're better off without her. Move on... play with Land-Rovers. 
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MonzaPhil
Posted a lot
Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought
Posts: 2,456
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Dec 14, 2011 21:13:47 GMT
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2.5 TD is a slug. Disco would be more comfortable, warmer, moderately drier, more economical and you can straight through the exhaust if you want noise The both rot like you wouldn't believe.   Get a nice 300 auto Disco and you'll be happy as a pig in poo for the winter.  This one was £150, just needed an engine. |
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This is now a clicky linky!  |
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stefan
Posted a lot
If it isn't broken fix it till it is
Posts: 1,598
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Dec 14, 2011 21:15:34 GMT
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I have had alot of land rovers and things do go wrong it is part of the charm. Main things to check is everything between the front bumper and the rear crossmember including those two items.
For a daily I would go Disco, still go wrong but nicer to be in and cheeper to buy
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POWER IS EVERYTHING WITHOUT CONTROL
1985 Honda jazz
1997 Saab 93 convertible
2010 transit 280
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MonzaPhil
Posted a lot
Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought
Posts: 2,456
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Dec 14, 2011 21:18:14 GMT
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What's your budget?
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This is now a clicky linky! |
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Dec 14, 2011 21:28:59 GMT
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1000-1800quid but i was counting on an earlier one for insurance costs! sadly being 25 I'm still drawn into the high risk band
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Dec 14, 2011 21:30:43 GMT
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I had a K reg and then an R reg Defender. Both two of the best things I've driven, especially in winter!
The K reg was very agricultural, my missus couldn't even budge the clutch pedal and it was really tough going in traffic, even the gear change was really 'firm'. No power steering either! Getting into my Astra afterwards felt like the car was broken because it was so 'loose', lol!
I also drove 5 miles on a completely flat tyre without noticing!
The R-reg was much better, clutch was normal and gear change was the same as a car. More creature comforts as well, I much preferred that one tbh. I never had a problem with rust though, may have been loved at some point. I could've lived with either, you just don't care about the toughness when you're driving them, it's part of the charm.
You won't regret owning a Defender, they're amazing 'cars' with loads of quirks and character.
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Last Edit: Dec 14, 2011 21:31:56 GMT by DavidB
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Violet Vivid
Part of things
Reports of my demise were somewhat exaggerated
Posts: 734
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Dec 14, 2011 21:47:15 GMT
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Thing with Defenders, and Series Land Rovers is when you live with one you'll either fall in love with it & enjoy it or you'll hate it & tolerate it.
For example I LOVE my 109" Series 3 & will Never EVER get rid of her.
But on sunday went to start her, as need to use her as daily for abit, and her battery was flat. Nothing big, jump start off my dads company car, take her for a nice run (including some gentle greenlaning ) and park her on the road.
Come some 6/7 hours later go to start her again, flat battery again. Hmm. Nother jumpstart & put her on the drive on charge.
Take her off charge last night, put my dads Land Rover on charge (as then can steal its battery if needed)
Go to start her this morning, flat battery, soo swapped them over.
Now this could easily happen with any retro, but want I mean is if you weren't too happy with living with a Landy then this'd be more irritating!
Also depends what you want the Landy for, a disco is almost as good offroad as a 90, and as said more civilised (but not as nice handling) on-road.
xXx
/ramble
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Violet, purple-loving Landy obsessed Purple-haired CyberPunk Almost model & occasional word wrangler regarding Landies
xXxIf she can't decide on what kind of genitalia she likes to play with you're better off without her. Move on... play with Land-Rovers.
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Dec 14, 2011 21:48:06 GMT
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200TDI Range Rover Classic, insurance isn't an issue as it can be put on classic insurance (mine is £186 a year but am 29)
Apart from the gearbox feeling clunky the Range Rover is very livable and almost normal you may say.
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Some days you just need to take a grinder to an inanimate object, just to make your day a tiny bit better!!
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MonzaPhil
Posted a lot
Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought
Posts: 2,456
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Dec 14, 2011 22:29:59 GMT
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TDi Rangies are a bit thin on the ground compared to Discoveries, but yes, a nice place to be. My mate has the best of both worlds, Lifted 200tdi 90 with all the bits and a lowered V8 classic Range Rover.... I couldn't go into a hard winter knowing I had to live with the discomfort and cold of a Defender. I do own a 110.... Your budget would be restrictive for Defender purchasing but actually get you a lot of Discovery. You could buy 3 then stand a chance of at least one being in running order. Oh.... In case you were thinking of a rusty F reg Defender in my earlier post:  Nope, 10 years old and utterly borked, also perfectly normal. |
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This is now a clicky linky! |
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Dec 14, 2011 23:05:50 GMT
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I wish they were that thin they were worth something  Mine needs a bit more work than I wanna do but its worth next to sod all <£600 as it stands mot failure and un taxed |
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Some days you just need to take a grinder to an inanimate object, just to make your day a tiny bit better!!
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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Defender 90 "livewithability"skinnylew
@skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member 11
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Dec 14, 2011 23:53:24 GMT
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I get to drive brand new ones for work and they are quite nippy but for a 11 plate they are soooooo basic!!
Very very nickable though, most stolen car of the past few years.
Also if you live inside the M25 it's non LEZ compliant (diesel obv)
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Defender 90 "livewithability"10mpg
@10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member 204
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Get a 200tdi Disco instead, they're are properly useable, go better, more economical and usually cheaper to buy. This ^^^^ DON'T ever buy a 2.5 TD, defiantly the worst engine ever to come out of Solihull really properly dreadful I'd take a VM over a 2.5 TD any day...Any Landrover of that era you only want to see 200tdi in the advert, that said I’m no big fan of the 200tdi but they are at least tough enough and have a fair amount of poke for an old school denzil.. Personally as a long time Land Rover product fan (i don’t think I’ve been without some kind of Land Rover for the last decade) I HATE defenders, I just cant see why anyone buys them, if you are a hill farmer/game keeper or you deal with the most extreme type of terrain on a daily basis then yeah I can just about see it, if not a Disco Rangie or if you want to work it a Land Cruiser will do the same job cheaper easier and for longer.. If you want to have a laugh with a utility vehicle buy a Series pretty much any series but especially good fun with the V8 or 6 cylinder.... Defenders are cramped noisy cold bouncy and not that reliable, I'm 5'11 and a just bit 'porky' and I cant drive a modern defender with the window up, there's nowhere for my bloody elbow! Plus a 90 is basically a strict 2 seater, some have back seats but they're useless and then you have no boot... My step dad bought the very last of the TD5 90's brand spnking new, and I have to admit that it's a right laugh on boost, hurtling round rural France, but for the money, I'd have defiantly gone elsewhere.. |
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Last Edit: Dec 15, 2011 0:21:14 GMT by 10mpg
The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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i would say from my point of view as much as i love 90s and 110s i would say to live with everyday id go for a range rover classic v8 on gas i actually did just that in may i bought a 1990 vogue se 3.9 v8 auto on gas paid £1000 for it and do not regret it it is comfortable has all the gadgets and running it on gas it costs me as much to run as my old 1 litre polo used to on petrol but you get that lovely v8 sound and if you do go off road its as capable as a defender all i will say is check the rear crossmember for rot and things do go wrong but no more than any other retro and bits are cheap
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I loved my old 90.  It was a J reg 2.5 TD with a mileometer that had seemingly been jammed on 99999 miles for at least 4 years before I bought it. It went well, but was akin to a tractor. The heavy clutch and gearchange made city driving tiring, it was noisy as hell, cramped, bumpy, rattled like a drumkit falling down stairs, crumbled before my eyes on a day to day basis due to corrosion and leaked from pretty much every joint, opening and seam when it rained. On the other hand, it never failed to start, pulled ok, and the fuel consumption never changed. it would give 25 mpg bumbling round back roads, on a motorway run, towing 3.5 tons.....it never changed. The seating position was higher than pretty much anything on the road so I looked down on everyone, even the smug types in their X5s etc. Whilst it was officially a 3 seater, anyone using the middle front seat would have had to have no legs at all. Plenty of load room in the back though. I would not have another though. I don't need extreme off road ability and a discovery ( I had a j reg 200tdi) does everything the 90 did, was more comfortable, quieter, and could seat 5 with ease. People above have talked about the landrover charm of these little quirks and niggles and flaws, but frankly, that gets old very quickly. A japanese 4x4 is just as good as a landy, if not better in many areas, and will need less attention and repairs. |
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Last Edit: Dec 15, 2011 9:07:57 GMT by dave21478
1986 Panda 4x4.
1990 Metro Sport.
1999 Ford Escort estate.
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Ax GTi Turbo
