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Oct 20, 2011 22:07:54 GMT
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I have just taken my car to a specialist to get the brakes looked over as I felt they weren't safe.
Turns out I was right, master cylinder bore is too small and there is no way to move enough fluid to lock the brakes.
While the car was there, they discovered that steering shaft coupling does not 'fit' on rack properly, even when fully tightened - the parts aren't compatible.
So basically, I have been driving an unsafe car. The car has passed through 2 MOT's, the last less than 10 miles ago.
Clearly, the MOT Station is giving out mates MOT's. What can I do, checked VOSA website and it seems to pass the buck a bit, and also, I guess it is difficult to prove my point now they are getting fixed.
This is dangerous.......
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Oct 20, 2011 22:11:04 GMT
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its not that clear. Those parts could have been changed after the mot - i know its unlikely, but possible
i think your MOT certificate includes details of how to complain
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room. |
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Oct 20, 2011 22:32:02 GMT
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MOT is a test of general roadworthiness rather than basic engineering principles. If theres no movement in a joint then its assumed to be sound. We're looking for worn parts rather than parts that should never be there in the first place. Your complaint should lie with the person who bodged it in the first place.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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Oct 20, 2011 22:56:42 GMT
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How long have you owned the car?
Just curious last MOT is 10 miles ago and you're accusing of "mate's MOT"? Or is this one you just bought.
Anyway, as said, MOT test is more about wear and tear not about unsuitable parts fitted - although there are a few places where that could be a fail.
I'd look at the failure to lock the wheels on braking though, as there is a tick box for the tester to confirm that this has occured. Of course locking them on the rollers and on the road are 2 different things but if you have it on the rollers and it won't lock then something may well be fishy.
I reported an MOT place for doing me a bad test, they let the car out seriously dangerous. I phoned VOSA and they sorted it. I never had any feedback. For all I know a tester lost his licence or maybe they did nothing. They did say they were going to put an undercover car in for a test there. Maybe thats what they do.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Oct 20, 2011 23:01:59 GMT
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Brakes don't need to lock for a pass, as long as the braking efficiency is within limits.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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Oct 20, 2011 23:04:27 GMT
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Brakes don't have to lock on the rollers - they have to meet a combined minimum efficiency (half the test weight of the car). The check box for "wheel locked" is there because if 3 wheels or more lock up the car passes regardless of the wheel readings. It's perfectly feasable for the car in question to meet MoT standards but feel awful on the road.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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will930
Part of things
Decked K11 Micra - RetroRunner Mk2 Golf
Posts: 521
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Oct 20, 2011 23:08:41 GMT
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as regarding to mates rates and mates pass.... with me they will fail if say something needs doing right away but other than that i get a little note telling me to sort it
naughty but nice at the same time
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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i get this. it fails as it should and then i get a month to fix it within which he retests freev of charge
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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doubt theres much you can do , it wouldnt be much of a mate sending you away with duff brakes and steering
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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Oh, I thought brakes had to lock on the rollers, good info there, thanks. The 3 locks = pass explains the "meh, so long as they lock" attitude my tester has. Testing big heavy cars with drum brakes does test the system a bit I think LOL
As for mates MOTs, I get a right bollocking of my tester mate "you should know better!!!" if anything is wrong with a car I take up.
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Last Edit: Oct 21, 2011 8:18:33 GMT by akku
1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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I have owned the car for a while, it has been restored over a long period. It has been on the road for over 12 months.
The brake design was wrong from day dot form what we now understand. The master cylinder bore size was insufficient to move enough fluid. The car was not capable of an emergency stop. This was obvious to me on the road, the car builder claimed they were okay when I brought it up. From the point, I knew I was talking to a brick wall. The specialist that I took the car to on the weekend took it for a test drive and said they should have definitely been an MOT fail, he said it was unsafe on the road. The pedal box has had to come out, a new master cylinder fitted with new remote reservoir.
The steering shaft had approx 1/2" of movement so would also have been a fail.
This is not just me being picky - there are plenty of faults I am dealing with that I haven't mentioned - this is a case of not being roadworthy.
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Last Edit: Oct 21, 2011 8:43:45 GMT by alolympic
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Before we get into the mechanics of locking brakes;
What car, what mods? If it was totally standard I'd suspect the specialist!!
Also, how would you describe the brakes feeling suspicious on the road?
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Before we get into the mechanics of locking brakes; What car, what mods? If it was totally standard I'd suspect the specialist!! Also, how would you describe the brakes feeling suspicious on the road? This is my Rochdale Olympic. The brakes are a bespoke combination of BMW E30 calipers and discs with a single Metro master cylinder with a 11/13" bore. The pedal box is also bespoke. The brake issue on the road manifests itself by having to exert masses of pressure on the brake pedal to slow the car down. The pedal reaches the end of its travel and the car is still slowing. I have to start braking I would say twice as early as I would expect to. The car weighs 800kgs, has 260mm discs and 4 pot calipers on the front - it shouldn't behave like that. Pulling up behind cars stopped at traffic lights is always a very scary experience. |
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Last Edit: Oct 21, 2011 9:01:32 GMT by alolympic
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Well, if you are sure you want to do something about it the procedure is this -
1 DO NOT get the car fixed.
2 Ask testing station for a VT/17 form
3 send form to local VOSA along with the full test fee
4 Wait...........
5 They will re-test the vehicle (the whole thing, not just the bits you think are wrong) and make a decision
Personally, I wouldn't. You could be opening a huge can of worms for yourself if the VOSA examiner doesn't like your modified fibreglass mono bodied kit car....
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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chevazon
Posted a lot
1939 Chevrolet 2 door coupe, `67 `Zon estate, `87 Ragtop Cavalier, 4 x 800 Drifters,(!) 1500 Drifter
Posts: 2,259
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Oct 21, 2011 10:08:11 GMT
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I would listen to Andy`s advice (SOC) and bite the bullet and fix it otherwise you may encounter more problems.
I would have thought the Metro master cylinder a bit small to push the BMW calipers.
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Oct 21, 2011 10:13:31 GMT
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I think you're right, have to just swallow it.
Not happy though, risking my and others lives.
Another disappointment in a long painful restoration..... the only way is up!
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Oct 21, 2011 10:23:23 GMT
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Sorry but this really boils my curse word.
The only person who's risked yours and other peoples lives is you, by driving a car which by your own admission has faulty brakes and not doing anything about it. The mot certificate says in big letters that its not proof of roadworthiness. It's your responsibility as the vehicle keeper to keep it in a roadworthy condition, not an mot tester who sees the car for half an hour every year.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,842
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Dodgy MOT - what would you do?stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Oct 21, 2011 10:46:02 GMT
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The guy who built it is to blame. I thought he was a super duper Rochdale specialist?
Matt
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Oct 21, 2011 10:46:51 GMT
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The brakes are a bespoke combination of BMW E30 calipers and discs with a single Metro master cylinder with a 11/13" bore Who's design decision was this? The only person who's risked yours and other peoples lives is you, by driving a car which by your own admission has faulty brakes and not doing anything about it. This was my initial thought and I was about to angrily hammer away at the keyboard but, in fairness to the OP, he says that the car's not done many miles since the last MOT and he took it for a second opinion when he noticed the problem. I'd still like to know who specified the system. It doesn't sound right for the car. |
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Last Edit: Oct 21, 2011 10:51:40 GMT by Battles
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Oct 21, 2011 12:22:25 GMT
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*Google's Rochdale Olympic*
The "design" doesn't look like a clever combination to me as far as the brakes are concerned...
Do you have drums on the back or did you go for all discs?
It sounds like if you plan on keeping the wheel ends the same you would be better going for a pair of master cylinders and a proper motorsport style pedal box, otherwise it will be the devils game getting a single master cylinder with the right bore size (or combination of bore sizes) to provide both feel and power with ancient BMC drums on the back and huge BMW discs on the front...
When you say 'bespoke', who specified the brakes in their current combination in the first place?
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