ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jun 30, 2011 20:30:56 GMT
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The Spec as of Now (September 2013):Engine: Stag 3.0 V8 on a Monarch Holley Carburettor conversion, early style Rimmer Bros Tubular exhaust manifolds, relocated alternator and a Newtronic Ignition system Gearbox: ZF 4HP22 4 Speedo Automatic Transmission, with an electronic speedometer drive Chassis: Chris Witor lowering springs with Superflex bushes in places. 6.5Jx15" Rays Payton Place Split rims complete with 205/60R15 rubber. Braided brake hoses with OE Spec pads fitted. Other: Mk1 seats refubished. Here is the story of how I bought a Stag. I saw it for sale locally and went to go and have a look. Ok the paintwork could be better but it was fine for me (certainly tidy), and with many new bits and other handy trinkets (electronic ignition, Stainless exhaust, new interior (some still to go back in), it looked like it was worth a shot. It did drive initially too! So then I went to put a deposit down, and then paid the full amount. Then came the driving. For the first 5-7 miles it drove quite nicely, but the gearbox did not sound too pleasant, and nor was the car very quick either! In the end I bottled it and trailered it back. This is where I found out just how difficult it was to push the car. Maybe the noisy 'box was telling me something. It stopped reversing (even when in neutral and on an incline), but at least it was damn comfy to sit in (new seat covers and bases probably help there), has a solid and tidy body in addition to being priced right (there's alot to like with a new fuel tank, prop (a reason for that), and so forth. Basically, this car has been converted from a BW Type 35 to a ZF 4HF22. In 1st, it sounds like the 'box has no oil (it has plenty and it is very clean), and well, it is time to get to the root of the issue. More will be told later on the issue. Whether I will revert back to the BW setup or stick with the ZF (many are telling me to stick with it) is another thing (a few owners swear by the retrofitted ZF item, claiming they would not go back), but for now here are some pics of the machine:     If that 'box issue can be sorted it should make for a lovely machine. EDIT: The spec of this car is not too exciting, but I guess it is not a 'stock' Stag. So here we go: Engine: Stock Triumph V8 with a Holley 390 4 barrel carburettor, Newtronic Electronic ignition with Bosch Sports red coil, Hart Racing Services (HRS) Starter motor relay conversion, spin on oil filter conversion with Kenlowe fan Gearbox: BMW E30 ZF4HP22 Automatic gearbox with lockup converter. Chassis: Stock bar Superflex bushes, Chris Witor Progressive rate lowering springs and Rays Engineering (Payton Place Queens) 6.5Jx15" Split rim alloy wheels on 205/60R15. Interior: Refubished MkII interior with MkI seats.
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Last Edit: Sept 21, 2015 19:05:11 GMT by ChasR
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Jun 30, 2011 21:03:40 GMT
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Looking good Chas! You knew it made sense! ;D
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Knew a mate who bought a stag in the 80's went to Yarmouth test drive parted with cash drove home stopped in pub later when he came out but it in 'R' nothing! had to push it back! Went home phone seller who said sold as seen! dooh, he put it in the auctions! lost money though.
Looks like new gear box you could try that Lucas gearbox stuff you get on ebay worth a try for 20 quid!
Other than that looks a straight motor, does it have original triumph V8?
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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It does indeed have the original V8. Complete with a stainless exhaust, Newtronic ignition and new fuel system (tank, pipes and pump all look new). Sounds lovely  . It did not come with much history but after talking to some members of the Stag Owners' Club it seems I am knowing more about the car. What I do know is that the gearbox was refurbished and the car running for at least a year before it was laid up for 6 months. What I can say about the car is that with the wheels on the ground it can be pushed forward in Neutral but with a struggle (much more than if it is on the jack). Try to push it backwards, it creeps back a little initially and then it stops, as if it has locked up! Put the car into reverse when running, the revs drop, the car tries to go backwards, but doesn't. It cut out in reverse (I shall never try it in reverse again!) and it struggles to rev also in reverse With it up in the air, I can spin the wheels both way freely. Again, in Drive, the wheels spin, but in reverse, nothing. Some people think it's a linkage issue, some reckon the 'box may be kaput. What I can say is that in 1st, it sounds like it has zero oil in the 'box (loud whirring consistant with speed increasing) that goes when it changes gear, which is why I am suspecting the gearbox. Could it really be that 5 months of it being laid up could do this. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Progress has been made on it! Firstly, I gave the car a service. During which I noticed the plugs in the car were the same as I took out bar being resistor plugs. Whether this is due to the electronic ignition I do not know. The car seems to run on all 8 but not as nicely as I would want and I am sure it can be much smoother running. I think the dwell angle is on the pee, but how to adjust it on the Newtronic system is another matter as shown in this thread? Help?The wiring in the pictures was going from the fuel pump to the battery as the car decided it would not run on its own loom. It turned out that the inertia switch for the fuel pump was knocked. Resetting this cured the problem (I thought this was the 70s...). Now to do is to get the 'box sorted, and check the cooling system. As it stands it is on a 3 (staggered) core rad, the viscous fan, with a Kenlowe fan in the mix. It seems to have had new hoses (stainless hose present), but I am tempted to get a 4 Core rad either from Rimmers or from Tony Hart (Supergill item which despite being pricey also seems proven). For now I'll flush the coolant out and put in a new thermostat? What would you fellas do regarding the cooling? |
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Seams a bit strange a kenlowe and viscous  sounds like cooling is on the limit or the viscous coupling was buggered. i'd go for a 4 core rad keep cool ;Dbut does the cooling for the auto box go into the rad or does it have its own oil cooler rad? |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Has its own rad for the 'box  . I was thinking that if I went for the Supergill rad, I would put the Kenlowe on a thermoswitch as well as a manual switch, hence it being similar to quite a few cars of the 80s/90s with a secondary fan. Whether it would restrict cooling efficiency is another thing. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jul 24, 2011 13:24:11 GMT
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Time to sort out the gear linkage.
The previous owner (PO) made a gear linkage by predominantly utilising the Stag bits. Looks nice and original I admit, but the gear selection was very vague and getting park once in drive was tricky. I looked into making it work, but it seemed with the arc/travel of the Stag lever I was on a road to nothing.
Instead, I have aquired a complete shifting mechanism from an XJS 3.6 The inside will need some fiddling to make it fit, but an initial trial with shifting the gearbox is much improved. Park is no longer a micro away from reverse. Now to fit it in...
The ignition problem is still present. The coil has been checked and is within stock values (a Bosch Red Coil for ballasted systems. Voltage at the coil is 5.5V when the car has its ignition on. Bar the dwell angle being half of what it should be I am at a bit of a loss as to what could be the issue...
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purplevanman
Posted a lot
Way too orangey for crows
Posts: 3,829
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Sept 3, 2011 23:23:33 GMT
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lacking in updates m8 How's the new box? |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 4, 2011 15:41:30 GMT
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Yes, I have been slacking a little lately, I know. I guess it's time I show where some of the work has gone . Before I talk of the gearbox (or even before I took it to the refurbers to get the current one diagnosed), the Stock selector was awful. A very vague, and playful affair making it impossible to get the gear you wanted no matter how delicate you were (gear positions changing did not help!) I decided get a little drastic and fit a gear selector from a ZF 4HP22 'boxed car. A Jaguar XJS item surfaced and it seemed to fit the bill. Not to everyone's taste I admit, but I was unsure of the other avenues TBH! I guess at least getting the gear you want is a much much slicker affair. Yes, the interior is a mess.  This is part of the reason. Time to start the reconstruction process around the centre console.  Now for the gearbox. Off it went to the refurbers with the bad news coming back. Basically, as an old Porker specialist of mine thought (it was a little uncanny his diagnosis!) the gearsets inside the gearbox were pretty much smashed to pieces in addition to the secondary oil pump being seized. Swarf was also found within the gearbox. As a result a recon gearbox and torque converter were fitted. From simply moving the car around I could immediately tell it was a different drive. It can actually build up speed well (it really struggled before, hence why I thought I may have got a gear wrong (I could not tell!), change gear swiftly and smoothly without funny noises, in addition to sounding just a little quieter! (In first before, I thought the gearbox had no oil until I checked on the old gearbox). However, there are other issues to deal with ATM. It hesitates before you move off, firing initially on almost 8, to moving to 8 cylinders a few seconds after having your foot planted. Seeing the carb breathers blocked by sealant in places (where the air filter goes on) in addition to an empty dashpot seem to get closer to these. Whilst I was there, I also got busy with flushing out the radiator and block and crud etc. that could have built up. In addition, I also went to town on changing the hoses and changing the temp sender).  Oh, and some shots after I fixed the fuel pump issue (For those of you wondering why a wire ran from the back of the car to the front I found that the car has a inertia switch. Sorting that out brought the fuel pump back to life.  |
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Last Edit: Sept 4, 2011 20:18:17 GMT by ChasR
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Sept 4, 2011 18:47:48 GMT
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Glad to see you're making progress. Best colour for a Stag |
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Sept 4, 2011 18:52:26 GMT
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shouldn't a balested coil be 9V with the ign on and 12 on cranking? could be a weak spark from the low voltage causing the hesitation ?
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R.I.P photobucket
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 4, 2011 20:12:17 GMT
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AFAIK, a ballasted coil should be around 6V with the ignition on (mine is around 5.5V), and it shoots up to around 10V (starter taking its share of power when cranking). I could be wrong.
The coil is a Bosch 12V Red Coil for a ballasted system. The resistances check out as per the specs of the coil, although I do have a new coil on the way with other bits.
The Newtronic dwell issue was down to the method I was measuring it. It is indeed kicking out around the right dwell.
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Last Edit: Sept 4, 2011 20:21:27 GMT by ChasR
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luckygti
Posted a lot
I need to try harder!
Posts: 4,912
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Sept 4, 2011 21:01:36 GMT
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Another new car I've missed  Chas, you've bought my idol, my favourite car ever I am a bit jealous. Sounds like its coming together and good to see one that hasn't had a Rover V8 dropped in! Look forward to seeing how it progresses |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 8, 2011 20:36:47 GMT
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Don't worry LuckyGTi, I shall try and not let this one stall. Famous last words eh? Anyway, with a little free time today I thought I would try and sort a couple of other issues on it. Firstly the brakes. The keen eyed amongst you may have spotted that the braking assembling is missing in the above engine bay shot. That is because the servo was shot, despite looking quite good. I soon acquired a bit of a bargain servo on ebay which looked scruffy, but was claimed to be fine. With how cheap it was (and the other odd bits I got in the sale) I figured it was worth a chance. Splitting the servo from the brake master cylinder (MC) however revealed that the vacuum/dust seal on the MC was not present. The Servo also had a little fluid in it. Whether it was brake fluid or not I cannot tell, but I will keep an eye on it. After getting a rebuild kit and fitting the vacuum seal I then repainted the servo and master cylinder while they were split on the bench with them both looking a little scruffy, and finally putting them back together:  Then came putting it back into the car. Whilst I was there I took the Bosch coil off and fitted the new coil I acquired (not quite as good IMO but I was wondering whether the old coil was tired; The new coil certainly tested lower on its primary resistance). After checking the coolant connections, put a little more coolant in I then fired the car up so I could move it to make access easier. For the first time, the temp gauge actually moved more like I expected. Maybe it was due to having the 'correct' thermostat (with a Jiggle pin and foot like the picture below), but at least it looked like the results made more sense.  The car also sounded alot healther. Closer to how I want the car to run. I shall reset the carbs once I am happy with the rest of the engine (Ignition I am sure is fine now). A drive down the road seem to prove that the hesitation is no more. Maybe it was an iffy coil, the empty dashpot or the vacuum leak from the servo (I could hear it after all!). Or all of the above. But I am getting there finally. Oh, and here is one photo of the MC and servo back in the car, the new leads, plugs, and the coil I temporarily fitted for testing purposes.   |
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Last Edit: Sept 8, 2011 21:51:55 GMT by ChasR
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 27, 2011 11:56:09 GMT
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More progress has ensued. Whilst the pedal feel improved with the new master cylinder (and the brakes (but then I was comparing them to dire brakes beforehand!)) not all was well when I came to bleeding all of them. The N/S/R bled in a strange manner. Upon further investigation I found the rear brake cylinder had seized. With no fluid coming out of the pipe once the cylinder was off it was easy to see that the brake pipe had collapsed. Bearing in mind the car had an MOT only 3 months ago, I guess the credibility of the last ticket could be disputed. Thus I bought some new flexis too:  Now I have more solid brakes, which actually do bring the car to a halt . Furthermore the electrics were slightly sketchy when I bought the car. After partially rewiring/remaking some wires around the steering column (they were hacked about for some reason) I now have a working set of hazards, flashing beam lights in addition to a working horn! Let's hope I keep getting closer to that MOT . |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Oct 13, 2011 13:12:10 GMT
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From the previous posts, there are my new brake hoses fitted. Suffice to say, along with the other rectifications on the brakes, they are now superb stoppers on the Stag. How it passed an MOT last time with the old brakes (it was scary driving with them at 20mph last time!) is beyond me.  After going through the connundrum of electrical issues etc. I finally got to the stage where I could get an MOT. After the last MOT it had (where it passed on pretty non existant brakes, inoperable hazzards and 4 Main beam sealed beam lights (no dipped lights present) I was hoping I would get a ticket after rectifying the issues. But alas it was not to be:  One of the failures was the handbrake (I fixed this but the car had not been used for quite some time, some use fixed this), another was a washer motor issue (one way valve cured this too), in addition to a small amount of welding and headlight aim (I fitted two new Halogen lights). So off it went to a familiar RRer's place for some love and care :   After all this I finally got the green ticket . Finally I can see the open road! Well, maybe a few other issues... Firstly, it shakes as you go above 50mph, getting worse the faster you go, and not decreasing in intensity as you come off the gas. My dad and my mechanic reckon it is a prop balancing issue (it is new, but I guess it could not be balanced correctly) or put on incorrectly. I'll be checking the wheels first to see if they are true first and going from there. That pretty much puts it out of motorway work (unless I fancy risking it with some serious vibrations at speed or lorries overtaking me (albeit very slowly!)). Second are the carbs. It runs quite poorly on the choke, and while once warm it is ok, the revs rise from 500rpm to around 1000! When flooring it, it starts to miss in certain parts (not stutter, but miss one, then carry on, and then miss higher up despite pulling well) No doubt it is down to the leaky spindles and shot carb couplings (they are very perished and leak in air as a test with carb cleaner confirmed), but I have not yet decided how to go about the carbs, although running on the poor set is probably not the wisest of ideas. So plenty to keep me busy . |
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Last Edit: Oct 13, 2011 13:14:55 GMT by ChasR
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Oct 15, 2011 18:48:14 GMT
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PhoenixCapri
West Midlands
Posts: 2,681
Club RR Member Number: 91
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Oct 15, 2011 19:59:41 GMT
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looking good! We really should cruise around leam/warwick one evening for a bit and show the kids what proper cars look like  |
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roofus
Part of things
Posts: 58
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Oct 15, 2011 20:06:01 GMT
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Very very nice ride ChasR
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sounds like cooling is on the limit or the viscous coupling was buggered. i'd go for a 4 core rad keep cool ;Dbut does the cooling for the auto box go into the rad or does it have its own oil cooler rad?
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Chas, you've bought my idol, my favourite car ever 
